Yemeni NI P criticizes government's method of dealing with rebels….
11 June 2005
20:38
BBC Monitoring Middle East English
Text of interview with Shaykh Humaid al-Ahmar, member of Yemeni House of Representatives, by Khalid al-Hammadi entitled "Government dealt wrongly with Al-litithi issue: Shaykh Al-Ahmar advised President Salih not to use force" published by London-based newspaper Al-Quds al-Arabi website on 8 June, some subheadings inserted editorially.
The Al-Hut hi phenomenon in Yemen or the Al-Huthi mutiny movement that came to the surface suddenly last summer, calmed down for a period, and then resumed its armed activities against the state in the Sa'dah governorate, has assumed many dimensions, and the state's attempts to contain and deal with it have been met with various criticisms and different interpretations, some people supporting these attempts, others opposing them.
There is a mixture of political, sectarian, and tribal factors in the Al-Huthi issue, the consequences of the establishment of this movement, and the magnitude of violent armed confrontations between the government forces and the movement are still giving the government sleepless nights, causing it pain because of the hundreds of dead and several times more wounded on both sides, not to mention that the estimates of the government's financial losses are more than 52b Yemeni riyals, One dollar equals 190 riyals.
Moreover. i he tribe in Yemen has its special features and special status in the political, economic, and social movements, and has a special nature that might not be understood by foreign observers of Yemeni affairs.
About the Al-Huthi phenomenon and the status of the "tribe" and its political role in Yemen, Al-Quds al-Arabi met in Sanaa with Shaykh Humayd al-Ahmar, member of the House of Representatives, chairman of the Board of Directors of the Al-A hmad Commercial Group, and son of Speaker of the House of Representatives Shaykh Ahdallah Bin-Husayn al-Ahmar. The following is the text of the interview: Use of force.
[Al-Hammadi] Some people say that your father, Shaykh Abdallah Bin-Husayn al-Ahmar, Speaker of the House of Representatives and leader of the Reform Grouping, used to have a special stance on how to deal with the Al-Huthi issue, and that he seemed to be against the use of force. Do you think that this stance affected his relationship with the authorities?
Al-Ahmar My father contacted President Ali Abdallah Salih, more than once, when he was undergoing medical treatment abroad, emphasized on the need of not using force and condemned such use, because the mere siege of the regions in which the followers of Al-Huthi were present would have compelled them to acquiesce to the authority of the state.
His opinion was that the issue should be left alone, or that more time should be given to other non-military solutions, including delegating the tribal leaders in the region as a whole to bring Husayn al-Huthi before the state authority, if the aim was just to do so. I believe that everybody realizes that the price of the military confrontations has been too high to be justified. Regardless of the nominal mediations at that time, because they were incapable of achieving any more than they did, are the authorities alone responsible for the use of force because of the exhaustion of the other methods? Or is the resistance also responsible? Naturally, the huge resistance that appeared later meant that the amount of force was unjustified, because what was it that the resistance was fighting for? What was the thing that was worth all these lives? As for whether this matter affected my father's relationship with the authorities, I do not believe this to be true at all. This is because at the end of the day it was an extremely major sedition, and my father was giving advice. As for his advice not being heeded, this was something else. He actually advised, and many others were saying that perhaps if the state were to give more time to what he advised, or if my father were there at that time, because of his strong relations with the tribes and with all sides, then the issue might have been resolved without resorting to force. There is no doubt that the Al-Huthi issue has revealed a major crisis, which is not easy to handle, and we ask God to spare Yemen its harm, and all other harms.
Major crisis …
[Al-Hammadi] In what way is it a major crisis for Yemen?
Al-Ahmar It is a major crisis to have such an armed confrontation between an intellectual tendency and the authorities, at such a time, and with such numbers of victims. This was not a limited tribal mutiny in a region demanding certain interests or revenge, a demagogue action by some tribal side, or a hasty action by the armed forces that led to acts of vengeance. It was not like that at all. The fact of the matter is that there was an intellectual tendency that included large numbers of people from all regions of Yemen, and they were fighting desperately under ideological influence. So far, we do not know what the justification was for killing all these people at that place, even for this ideology. This is not an easy matter. One of the aspects that could be represented by this ideology is a principle that contradicts completely one of the bases of the revolution and republicanism on which the state was formed, as a republic and not as a monarchy.
[Al-Hammadi] But some people consider that the Al-Huthi issue has gone beyond the sectarian dimension into the tribal one, and hence the sons of Sa'dah governorate gathered around him because they believed that they became targeted by the state, and perhaps that stemmed from the harm and financial damage they suffered at the hands of the government forces.
Al-Ahmar This is not true. First, because it is known, on the tribal side, that Al-Huthi does not belong to a specific tribe in this region, because he is of Hashemite origin, and therefore, he does not represent a specific tribe, even the one fighting on his side. Second, the victims and the people who were killed or arrested from among the Al-Huthi followers were from many regions. There is no doubt that the Sa'dah region in which Al-Huthi is present has a great influence, and hence there might be large numbers of those influenced by him in Sa'dah regions. However, the influence exists in regions and not in tribes. I believe that had the Sa'dah tribes been supporting Al-Huthi, then the situation would have been much greater and different from what it is now and the state would not have been able to achieve what it has achieved on this issue. I believe that had the issue been left to the tribal sides to resolve, then they would have been more capable to contain it. Al-Huthi is more dangerous than Al-Qa'idah.
Reform grouping…
[Al-Ham-midi] But after putting off this crisis last year with the death of Husayn al-Huthi, it erupted again this year, and its effects are apparent to this day. even if they take an intermittent form. How long are the sensitivities going to continue between the Al-Huthi followers and the authorities?
[Al-Ahmar] The fact of the matter is that there is no great transparency in discussilig and reporting the Al-Huthi issue. So far, some aspects have not been clear to everybody, such as the identity of the sides supporting such a movement that has been able to stand fast and resist the state that much, despite the fact that its members are not that many against the resources of the state and the people, because in the end they could be hundreds or even thousands.
Not all the aspects or secrets have been revealed. One cannot fully diagnose or analyze a problem until all the secrets are revealed. There is no doubt that dealing with the intellectual aspect is one way of ensuring that this sedition will not be repeated, however, since that period until now, the state has not done anything real, and the committees that went to Sa'dah to inspect the places the state considered to be dens for spreading these deformed ideas, as it called them, committed many mistakes and violations in their work.
We have heard that one of the reasons that motivated the state - according to its own admission - to support such an intellectual movement in the beginning was to confront the ideology of the Reform Grouping. Confronting the Reform Grouping ideology or disputing it was most of what happened in the attempt to deal with the intellectual aspect, and hence the serious intention to deal with the Al-Huthi tendency was probably superficial and not real.
The ideology Of the Reform Grouping, or other tendencies, is clear to everybody. It is established on the same basis as that on which the state is established. It has been tried in more than one place and does not at all call for violence, does not call for confrontation with the state, and does not consider itself isolated from contemporary changes taking place in the world.
In its intellectual aspect, this ideology is based on very strong foundations capable of expressing the reality of Islam and the wishes of its sons in all their wide cross sections. This is not new. We know that the state decided to light religious institutions and close them down, i.e., the religious institutes that were managed by the Reform Grouping and which were financed by the government. Not a single bullet was shot when these religious institutes were closed down, despite the large number of their branches, graduates and supporters, and despite the fact that their closure included some sort of arbitrariness, injustice, and violation of the rights of their employees, who considered themselves state workers, served the state for long years, participated in graduating thousands of Islamic propagators and enlightened youths. They were never proved to have any deviation or incite people against the state and its principles.
Government's initial support for Al-Huthi…
The Reform Grouping never resisted this government decision. The ideology adopted by the Reform Grouping was probably one of the reasons that made the state support the Al-Huthi movement in the beginning in order to establish some kind of balance, which was a mistake.
Today, this makes me say that the Al-Huthi issue was not dealt with correctly. The treatment of this issue ought to be on an intellectual level and in a correct way in the hands of those who could really present an intellectual alternative to these misguided youths. There should be a real intellectual alternative. and not mere written undertakings not to relapse, which are kept by the political security or other departments. I believe that the consequences of the Al-Huthi issue, if they are not actually and really corrected, rind if the political and popular ranks are not unified as happened during all the crises that the state was capable of confronting, then these consequences might continue and escalate with explosions here and there, such as those that take place here every now and then, and which disturb Yemeni society. We hope that they will not have the opportunity to widen and spread.
Comparison to Al-Qa'idah ….
[Al-Hammadi] Bearing in mind that the Al-Qa'idah followers have specific targets that they achieved earlier, and then they calmed down, while the Al-Huthi folloivers are entrenched in the state organization and they continue to operate. do you think that the dangers and consequences of the Al-Huthi movement are more harmful than the consequences of the Al-Qa'idah followers in Yemen?
Al-Ahmar I We have heard from the state that Al-Qa'idah no longer has any presence in Yemen, and that those who used to consider Yemen a place in which to practice guerrilla activities against some Western and other countries, or a springboard for such practices, have been strictly confronted by the state and society. Furthermore, the general intellectual mobilization in the Islamic world has rationalized this. There is much criticism of the results and consequences of the declared actions of Al-Qa'idah. Has Al-Qa'idah achieved what we could call gains for the Muslims? Or has the harm caused to the Muslims exceeded the benefits? And was the method itself incorrect? We hear statements from the state that always stress that Yemen has become free from the Al-Qa'idah operations, and that the cells that were here have been finished off. Yemen has never been targeted by Al-Qa'idah, but the Yemeni territories were used for command, planning, or attacking some Western interests.
[Al-Hammadi] Do we understand from this that the followers of Al-Huthi could be more dangerous for Yemen than the followers of Al-Qa'idah?
Al-Ahmar l This is actually what happened, because so far this sedition, led by Al-I luthi, has claimed the dear lives of sons of the Yemeni people in numbers that nobody imagined. This alone is sufficient to prove that.
Tribe is a state pillar (as published)…
[Al-Hammadi] The West attaches a negative view to the tribe in Yemen, the West considers it a symbol of backwardness. How do you interpret this view?
Al-Ahmar The tribe is one of the natural constituents of the society in this region and in the other Arab and Islamic regions. The gradual nature in the structure of society starts from the individual to the family to the tribe. This is a quite natural structure of society. We, as Muslims, believe in ( 'Tod almighty and in His description of the structure of human beings when He said, "And We made you nations and tribes, that you may know one another." Therefore, the tribal structure is a divine structure. The tribe means the ancestry of a specific person who inhabits a specific place linked him. We, as Arabs, say that we have the same origin, which is the tribe. which in its turn is a part of the society, however, our basic belonging is to Islam and the homeland. These are intertwined affiliations, among which there are no contradictions, the tribe is the heritage, the history, and is what distinguishes the Yemenis through these customs and conventions that stem from themselves and not from any decree that represents the authorities at any time.
Tribalism is what formulated the social relations among the people in times of prosperity and hardship, war or peace, and social occasions. In general. all these are tribal conventions. The Yemeni conventions that stemmed from the tribe are refined ones that save much effort, time, dispute, and hatred in resolving chronic problems than going through routine measures which might become complicated. All these conventions are compatible with Islamic sharia and law.
[Al-Hammadi] Some people might consider the tribe in Yemen as a social institution that has power and that is outside the framework of the official authority. What is your reply to this? What is the nature of the relationship between the authorities and the tribe? Is it one of inclusion? Or is it one of cooperation and integration?
Al-Ahmar I Look at the structure of the Yemeni government today. Is the tribe what is forming it? Are the posts distributed according to the tribes so that we can say that the tribe is power? In all this time and despite the fact that the majority of the members of the House of Representatives are the chiefs of tribes, has the tribe been able to impose a single law that talks about the interests of the tribe? Have they talked about sharing the wealth among the tribes? Have they talked about representing the tribes on employment or any other level? This has never happened. It has never happened that the tribe, as a tribe, tried to control the interests of the state or share them. This is despite the fact that historically speaking,
nearly all the Yemenis have tribal roots of belonging. If the West attaches a negative view to the tribe, then this stems from its misunderstanding of the tribe and its meaning. The tribe is a social constituent that gathers the people to protect their interests, the tribal system is a refined system that has consultation and democracy because the chiefs who lead these regions are selected with the consent of the sons of the regions to represent them in fulfilling their interests.
Today, the tribe cannot dissent from the state, cannot dispense with its services, and the tribe's role complements that of the state. You started your questions with the Al-Huthi sedition, and I answered that if it were left to the tribal side, then it would have been more capable of containing it. Thus, we find many problems are resolved at the tribal level, because the contacts and communication between the state and the tribal chief are bound to help in finding the wanted person in this or that region, which is much better than sending military campaigns to do this. This is because if anyone is a part of a tribe, and he feels that the tribe, represented by its usual structure, wants to hand him over to the state, then where could he go? This would force him to surrender to the state.
Tribe and the state…
[Al-Hammadi] Does this mean that the authority of the tribe and its influence in the tribal regions is better than that of the state in some situations?
Al-Ahmar l As far as the authority you are talking about is concerned, the tribe does not have any authority, because it cannot appoint a teacher, it cannot appoint a mayor, it cannot grant a work license, it does not have an army, it cannot pay salaries, and it does not have any source of revenue in its name. All these are the powers of the state. The tribe does not have authority in the sense of an authority parallel or opposite to that of the state. The tribe plays a social role under the law and under the state itself, it supports the state but within a framework that gathers the people to obtain their rights from the state if necessary. This is a normal gathering of the sons of these regions, if you check the administrative divisions and the names of the departments in Yemen, you will find that the borders and names of 90 per cent of them are the borders and names of the tribes in all the Yemeni regions. These tribal borders and names have been ratified by the state, which was the best thing to do. because the tribe in Yemen is linked to the land, and the Yemeni land is not a desert, and its inhabitants are not roaming Bedouins, but they are civilized tribes that own property and farm the land, this is one of the stages of forming a society.
[Al-Hammadi] There is no doubt that the tribe in Yemen has a very strong social structure, and perhaps in some regions the tribe relies on the power of weapons. Has this also strengthened and consolidated its political role?
Al-Ahmar I I do not think that there is any incident in which the tribe fought the state with weapons to get something it was not entitled to have, or imposed a change in state regulations or its structure for the benefit of this or that tribe. There are no such incidents. Today, the tribes, the same as individuals, practice their constitutional and legal right to vote, have representatives in the parliamentary and municipal councils, pay taxes and alms. They perform services, and they demand their interests the same as others.
[Al-Hammadi] But historically, since before the revolution and until today, it has been noticed that the tribes have an important role in the process of political change in the country.
Al-Ahmar I The tribes are gatherings of the sons of the people, the sons of the people ought to have a role in political change. The weight of the tribe is the weight of the people, and the people are the rulers, this is one of the bases of democracy: the people rule by the majority. Have you ever heard that 10,000 of the inhabitants in Hashid or Bakil ought to be represented by two or three deputies, but if these inhabitants were in another region, then they ought to be represented by only one deputy? Political representation is the same for all the sons of Yemen everywhere, the tribe does not have more rights than anyone else. As for the sons of the tribes having a role in influencing the authorities, then despite the fact that there is no clear evidence of this, who are the sons of the tribes? Are they not the people? If the tribe means a popular gathering to demand rights, then this will be a very natural thing, they are not strangers, neither do they demand privileges. Those who represent the tribe in Yemen are in power. The tribe is my structure and I cannot put the interest of my tribe before the interest of the state.
[Al-Hammadi] As a symbol of the Hashid tribe and being at the top of its pyramid, are you satisfied with the current performance of the authorities, including the remarks about corruption cases?
Al-Ahmar I If I am to talk about this aspect, I will not talk as a member of Hashid. but I will talk as a member of the people and a member of the House of Representatives, practicing my political rights through the multiparty system. I am a leading and active member of one of the parties in the Yemeni arena, and the tribe has proved that it absorbed this partisan action. So l'ar, no party has been declared on a tribal basis, as representing only a tribe, this is despite the fact that there are parties that consider themselves sectarian, but they are outside the framework of the Yemeni tribe.
Parliament started to fight corruption (as published) …
[Al-Hammadi] As a member of the House of Representatives, there is no doubt that Parliament has played a positive role during the recent period in fighting corruption, and it witnessed for the first-time solidarity among the various parliamentary blocs, including the bloc of the ruling party, working in this direction. What are the indications of this role?
Al-Ahmadi- I Two years have passed so far in the term of the House of Representatives. During this period some positive and good things have been achieved, and parliament has proved that its performance is improving. The House has confronted more than one corruption case, and adopted good stances, including stopping some suspicious deals that were outside the law in the oil sector.
The House of Representatives checked on and followed some cases in the service sector, in rationalizing as much as possible the use of loans and in preserving the interests of Yemen in numerous cases. All this is promising. but we are still at the beginning of our work, there still are many things required from us, and the obstacles are still more numerous than the positive things. However, I believe that the House is taking good steps. The members of the House of Representatives have great awareness, and their setting aside partisan issues, in many cases, has led to improvement in the performance of the House. There is progress and development in parliamentary work, the House in 1997 - I was a member of it - was different from the House in 1993, I was also a member of it then, and it was different from the current one. In 1993 the House was attached to the government, which led to great weakness in parliamentary action. Today the government gives more weight to the House, this is a good step towards the achievement of state institutions. So far, the House has taken good steps, but they are not sufficient. God willing, the House will continue to improve. The more the people's deputies are aware of and understand their role, the more this will be reflected in the people's interest.
What we kick in Yemen is the institutionalization of the state, institutionalization in administering the affairs of the state. The lack of institutionalization is basically due to the absence of the role of the House of Representatives. Are the state institutions not the legislative institutions, the executive institutions, and the judicial institutions? When the legislative institution springs to life, it will be able to assess, correct, and amend the performance of the executive institution, and also to protect the judicial institution from becoming attached to the executive one because of the power of the latter.
Every Yemeni, whatever his position might be or ought to put pressure on the House of Representatives to play a bigger role. I call on the leadership of the ruling General People's Congress Party [GPC] to give more space, facilities, and interaction to the movement taking place today within the House of Representatives, which would be in the interest of Yemen, which is above any other interests. The current intensive movement within the House stems from its members, as members, without instructions from the GPC leadership. On the other hand, the partisan instructions from the GPC still represent one of the obstacles that hinder the complete performance of the House. However, the members from all parties, especially the GPC bloc, showed a great deal of awareness and patriotism and imposed on the leadership of their parties the fact that if an issue was not in the interest of the state, they would take the side of the public interest.
Corruption…
[Al-Hammadi] During the past period the House of Representatives opened many corruption files in numerous ministries. Has the opening of these files stemmed from the members themselves? Or was it a directive from the state as an attempt to limit corruption after it became too much to bear?
Al-Ahmar So far, I have not found the government to be serious in fighting corruption. All that has been said about this is for public consumption, and we have been hearing it for long years. If the government apparatus and the executive authority were really serious in fighting corruption, then the mere expression of sincere intention and drawing up of the policies would have destroyed half the corruption. Moreover, fighting corruption requires a deep knowledge of its causes. I believe that one of the malfunctions that lead to corruption is the lack of institutionalization, and the fact that the state institutions do not play their role with the supervisory legislative institution at their forefront. Today, we are optimistic that this institution has started to play its role. In fighting corruption, we do not rely on any side except the House of Representatives, because we do not expect the corrupt to monitor themselves. By this I do not mean that the ent ire government is corrupt, but there might be some inherited corruption. and there is no seriousness in uprooting it because the uprooting mechanisms are not in the hands of the government alone, despite the fact that it is capable of easing the situation to a great extent.
The natural place to fight corruption is the House of Representatives, the House has to continue to do so. The leadership of the parties, with the ruling party at their forefront, ought to prove that they are taking.
The side of the people in order to activate the role of the people's institutions with the legislative institution at their forefront. Despite the fact that the House of Representatives has raised some of the corruption cases, we still face huge difficulties in implementing the House resolutions to stop some aspects of corruption, but we hope that the performance will continue and will improve.
Source: Al -Quds al-Arabi website, London, in Arabic 8 Jun 05
